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Season one · Thursday 2 July 2026 · 46 minutes

Why the Irish Called Black People Blue

Emma Dabiri in conversation with James Kirkham

Emma Dabiri

Emma Dabiri on hair, history, and why the Black/white binary is a design choice, not a fact of life.

Emma Dabiri wrote a book about hair. Except it wasn't about hair. Don't Touch My Hair used braiding as a trapdoor into 6,000 years of African philosophy, pre-colonial constructions of time, and the question of who gets to name things, and what happens to the things that get named wrong.

That argument has driven every book she has written since. The new one, Born to Be Blue, begins with a discovery in the Irish language: that people racialized as Black were traditionally called not Black but blue, after the iridescence of light on a dark surface.

Chapters

  1. 00:00Cold open: ADHD, Irish words for Black and white, planetary consciousness
  2. 01:00Intro: Dublin in the '80s and taking the pen back
  3. 02:00Tell me a story: Irish grandparents on a Tobago beach
  4. 04:00The grandfather who never approved, the family she never met
  5. 05:00Born in Dublin, Atlanta, the Deep South
  6. 06:00Coming back to Ireland: "go back to where you come from"
  7. 07:30Discovering how Irish she was by leaving
  8. 08:30Irishness as an anchor: MBEs and why she could never go home
  9. 09:00Atlanta wealth, then Dublin during the heroin epidemic
  10. 10:00Always reading from a very young age
  11. 11:00The Victorian arcade bookshop: radical literature by accident
  12. 13:00Seven schools, hating school, a very ADHD profile
  13. 14:30Instability and nothing feeling safe or certain
  14. 16:00University in African studies: the first time learning worked
  15. 17:00The ADHD diagnosis
  16. 18:30The ADHD tax: life admin, spreadsheets, posting letters
  17. 19:00Raptures of joy from music, feeling things overwhelmingly
  18. 20:00Knowing things were true that other people couldn't hear yet
  19. 22:00Finding her people in London
  20. 23:00Alignment and attracting what you should have
  21. 24:00Don't Touch My Hair: smuggling philosophy through hair
  22. 25:00Cartesian binaries and the world organised into oppositions
  23. 26:00Divisiveness, social media, and the same problem
  24. 27:30Hair as a populist entry point for African philosophy
  25. 28:30The chapter on time: what does "too time-consuming" actually mean?
  26. 29:00Pre-colonial Yoruba time versus post-industrial capitalism
  27. 31:00Braiding, intimacy, and a day organised around what needs doing
  28. 32:00The connective tissue across all three books
  29. 33:00Solutions suppressed as primitive that contain the answers
  30. 34:00Irish language, Yoruba philosophy, rehabilitating Irishness
  31. 35:00Blindboy and recognising neurodivergence
  32. 36:00The new book: saying less, what stays with people
  33. 37:00Substack: testing ideas before the printed page
  34. 38:30Why social media killed good faith debate
  35. 39:30Early Twitter: Spike Lee, bell hooks, when it felt like a club
  36. 41:00When conversations get monetised: competition replaces collaboration
  37. 42:00Born to Be Blue: the Irish language word for people racialized as Black
  38. 43:00Blue and bright: both words describe a relationship to the cosmos
  39. 44:00The memoir, the dissident thinkers, the blue concept
  40. 45:00Blue and bright are not opposites. They share the moon and the sun.